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9:07 PM
That's the modern DID organization that does a lot of the studies
9:08 PM
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THE LIMIT IS 0? ive not opened an article of tnyt in my lifetime in this computer
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Reguile
It's a mental illness, so if it's DID often just depends on the person diagnosing you and it's fuzzy - I'm guessing there are many cases without trauma.
Tato - [They] {Them} 12/26/2022 9:08 PM
Psychologists do not always strictly follow the DSM when diagnosing. One of my friends - who should 100% qualify for DID - was not diagnosed because her psychologist was under the belief that specifically sexual abuse was required for DID (she only experienced normal boring non-sexual trauma). Of course at the same time they didn’t let her start HRT for several years because “what if the original returns”
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Insurance companies for two doctors and Rush-Presbyterian-St Luke's agree to pay Patricia Burgus $10.6 million in biggest settlement yet in backlash against therapies that try to elicit suppressed memories; she says hypnosis and other treatments at Chicago hospital, 1986-92, convinced her she had been member of satanic cult, been sexually abused...
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Reguile
Click to see attachment 🖼️
WTF why would someone do that?
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Tato - [They] {Them} 12/26/2022 9:10 PM
False memories man, it was a big deal in the 80s. Buncha psychologists tried to do these techniques to “recover memories” (including hypnosis)
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No clue. I think it's an easy trap to fall into, you want results, you do experiments, look! results! You don't do the proper checks+balances because excited about results - you get this result.
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Tato - [They] {Them} 12/26/2022 9:10 PM
I took an entire class just on memory processes
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you can never know if memories are true or false
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If anyone ever tells you different DID patients have different allergies
9:10 PM
that's also a Mr. Braun fabrication
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Reguile
If anyone ever tells you different DID patients have different allergies
allergies?
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Yup, it's a claim you'll see occasionally
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Katie
you can never know if memories are true or false
Tato - [They] {Them} 12/26/2022 9:11 PM
Correct. A recovered true memory is indistinguishable from a recovered false memory
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like, allergies allergies? physical reactions to some substance? (edited)
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Mmmhmm
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Tato - [They] {Them} 12/26/2022 9:11 PM
Yes
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how would that be correlated?
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They will tell you it's scientifically proven and a power of the mind to change what you're allergic too
9:12 PM
It's... something that was written by a scientist, but it's totally bunk garbage science and anyone citing it should be told that
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Tato - [They] {Them} 12/26/2022 9:12 PM
There’s this whole group of people who believe in this philosophy of “mind over matter”. Some will even tell you that you can levitate if you believe hard enough
9:13 PM
Some will also tell you that you can make additional people inside your head!
9:13 PM
Whack stuff
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They will tell you it's scientifically proven and a power of the mind to change what you're allergic too
@Reguile - jump the brain is not involved in an allergic reaction wtf!
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...yep, but it's scientific!
9:13 PM
Dissociative identity disorder (DID), previously referred to as multiple personality disorder, is a dissociative disorder involving a disturbance of identity in which two or more separate and distinct…
9:13 PM
he alters may even present physical differences, such as allergies, right-or-left handedness or the need for eyeglass prescriptions. These differences between alters are often quite striking.
9:13 PM
Source
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i mean, if you can prove a p-value < 1e-4 i will buy it... but im sure you cant
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''We're finding the most graphic demonstrations to date of the power of the mind to affect the body,'' said Dr. Bennet Braun, a psychiatrist at Rush-Presbyterian-St. Luke's Medical Center in Chicago, and a leading pioneer in the research.
9:14 PM
Deep hive of bullshit there disguised as a "fact sheet"
9:15 PM
''If the mind can do this in tearing down body tissue, I think it suggests the same potential for healing,'' said Dr. Braun, who directs a 10-bed psychiatric unit that uses psychotherapy, hypnosis and drugs to treat people with multiple personalities. He said he believed that the drastic physical changes seen in patients going from personality to personality could be duplicated for emotionally normal people under hypnosis.
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Tato - [They] {Them} 12/26/2022 9:15 PM
So I do know/know of systems were members will prefer to use certain hands. Now… if they try to use the body’s non-dominant hand for say writing, it will not be as good as writing with their dominant hand at all
9:15 PM
But technically yes, some system members may prefer using a different hand as their dominant one
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Reguile
''If the mind can do this in tearing down body tissue, I think it suggests the same potential for healing,'' said Dr. Braun, who directs a 10-bed psychiatric unit that uses psychotherapy, hypnosis and drugs to treat people with multiple personalities. He said he believed that the drastic physical changes seen in patients going from personality to personality could be duplicated for emotionally normal people under hypnosis.
Tato - [They] {Them} 12/26/2022 9:15 PM
Uh… no
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i can accpet that the brain could "make up" allergies, but i dont see that would be correlated to did at all (edited)
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I'm not saying this is true, I'm saying this is a DID group trying to back DID and citing a guy who ran around convincing people they were baby eating satanists.
9:16 PM
In a "fact sheet"
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like, you taste donut icecream and think you have an allergy and have some reaction due to nocebo
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Tato - [They] {Them} 12/26/2022 9:16 PM
Look that’s just what people did in the 80s, Reguile
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That's a modern link
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and you think you have an allergy to that specific product
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This, right here
9:16 PM
Dissociative identity disorder (DID), previously referred to as multiple personality disorder, is a dissociative disorder involving a disturbance of identity in which two or more separate and distinct…
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Tato - [They] {Them} 12/26/2022 9:17 PM
Yeah but his “research” was in the 80s
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Tato - [They] {Them}
Look that’s just what people did in the 80s, Reguile
its recent
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People still spread these claims and pretend they're scientific
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Tato - [They] {Them} 12/26/2022 9:18 PM
Yeah and people claim that Egyptians sailed to the new world and built the Aztec’s pyramids
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This is a real institution
9:18 PM
NAMI is the National Alliance on Mental Illness, the largest grassroots mental health organization dedicated to improving the lives of persons living with serious mental illness and their families. Founded in 1979, NAMI has become the nation’s voice on mental illness, a nationwide organization with affiliates in every state and in more than 1,100 local communities across the country.
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Tato - [They] {Them} 12/26/2022 9:18 PM
Yeah then you should write them an email right now with your concerns!
9:18 PM
Instead of telling us, go complain directly
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Tato - [They] {Them}
Yeah and people claim that Egyptians sailed to the new world and built the Aztec’s pyramids
bro
9:19 PM
its an institution
9:19 PM
its crazy tbh
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Tato - [They] {Them} 12/26/2022 9:24 PM
Man every page they have on a disorder is kinda weird
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Physiological differences among alternate identities. Case reports and studies using small groups of DID patients and controls who simulate different “alternate identities” have found significant physiologic differ- ences in DID patients compared to controls that manifest in a variety of behavioral ways. These include differences in visual acuity, medication responses, allergies
Paper from 2011 from the isst-d https://www.isst-d.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/GUIDELINES_REVISED2011.pdf
9:24 PM
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Reguile
And a lot of the early DID people giving diagnosis were the sort to also do the whole satanic-panic false memory stuff, so a lot of the history of a hard DID-trauma connection are very squirrley (edited)
this was one of my mum's therapists 😄 she wasn't fucked up enough yet i guess
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Tato - [They] {Them} 12/26/2022 9:28 PM
Oh I’ve read some of these treatment guidelines before. They’re kinda messed up in a lot of ways
9:28 PM
They’re like 20+ years behind what a good therapist should be doing
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eh, she's why our original host had to make me (probably not even intentionally?) don't feel too bad for her :p
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Indication this spat over trauma has been going on for a looong while: - still from that paper
Still others have suggested that dissociative disorders should be reconceptualized as belonging to a spectrum of trauma disorders, thereby emphasizing their inti- mate association with overwhelming and traumatic circumstances (Davidson & Foa, 1993; Ross, 2007; Van der Hart, Nijenhuis, & Steele, 2006).
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Tato - [They] {Them} 12/26/2022 9:31 PM
Nah they’re actually likely going to take PTSD and shove it into the dissociative disorders in DSM-6
9:31 PM
Or “DSM-VI”
9:31 PM
Because they’re hipsters
9:32 PM
But I have to go do ornaments
9:32 PM
So just
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so... tl;dr did science right now is generally bullshite and nobody agrees with anyone?
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tl;dr - watch out for people claiming DID can change allergies because if they have they haven't done their proper study and are mindlessly quoting stuff they saw on the internet.
9:41 PM
And be very very skeptical of most DID science - make sure none of the researchers have any connections to places like the ISSTd - and be careful because they ISSTd keeps changing its name
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so basically ignore did science unless you really want to get deeeeeeeep into the drama. okay.
9:41 PM
:p
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Tato - [They] {Them} 12/26/2022 9:41 PM
The tldr is don’t trust people on the internet
9:42 PM
Everyone has their own theory and is trying to push it
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that too
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Indigo Blue | 💡 BOT 12/26/2022 9:44 PM
One time someone linked an article that claimed that people with DID do the whole "go off and live in imaginary world when not around" thing as proof. We went down a rabbithole of one source sourcing another source and so on, until we finally found the origin of the claim... which was just a DID system saying that they could do it, not an actual study or anything
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excellent
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Really important thread about "citation laundering." One source refers to another source, which refers to another, etc. By the end, it's like the game of telephone. What gets claimed is wildly different from the original research, yet is now taken as fact bc noone ever checks.
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Tato - [They] {Them} 12/26/2022 9:45 PM
No one tell Indigo about Shifting
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someone tell belle about whatever that is
9:51 PM
kids renamed astral projection, okay
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70's style "steal your mysticism from eastern asia" has fallen out of fasion - now it's "steal your mysticism from science fiction"
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Tato - [They] {Them} 12/26/2022 9:51 PM
No it’s more like dimension jumping, if you remember that fad
9:51 PM
Actually you probably don’t
9:53 PM
So people believe they can project their consciousnesses into alternative universes to like… Hang out with their favorite fictional characters. You know what? Fine and dandy. Doesn’t affect me But one of the like, side practices from this… is where you get a clone of yourself to inhabit your body while you’re shifted into an alternative universe …to do all your chores for you
9:54 PM
So to Indigo’s comment… if such a thing were impossible… why on earth do these people do it?
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i mean, it's tiktok
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TiCtAc(✧×✧) BOT 12/26/2022 9:57 PM
me?
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everything on tiktok is fake and for attention/updoots/follows
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after spending some time in did community i stopped thinking that the syndroms specified for DID need to come from trauma and in my opinion can have an iatrogenic origin. I'm not sure if there is an exclusivity on the origins source. i did bring up a few times on this server that i saw people developing pseudo-did (a singlet joins because they want to understand did because their friend has it, only to hear about symptoms and start having them after 2 weeks too; or a person who said "did is not that rare, i helped 25% of my gaming discord server discover they all have did!"). in my opinion did communities are quite harmful and it is good that did has a stigma attached to it, because of the iatrogenic potential. in the end of the day for me personally it doesn't matter, but i do keep in mind that people can be misguided by others or themselves which is why i always discourage people from doing research by themselves (medical student syndrome) and just see a doctor to address the issues they struggle with. noone even talks about differential diagnosis in the communities. i personally don't even think that diagnosis matters outside of the clinical context. and yes what they said on namimi website is definitely not the way to treat it, but unfortunately that is what people in the did community expect treatment to be like and have literal mental breakdowns when their therapist don't have the enabling approach.
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